Curse

Kerrick¹ · Mar 03, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Alright.. your guild is about to partake in a little GvG and eveyone is pretty much set when you realise that you're party is one man short and monkless to boot. (OMG!)

Of the two monks in your guild.. one plays a dedicated healer while the other specializes in protection prayers. Given that both are equally skilled, and you can only bring one along without hurting the rest of your build.. who gets in?

and more importantly... why?

Yogi's Pain · Mar 03, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Easy. The prot. There is a reason why 70% or so of the monks in GvG the past few months have been boon prot. And the reason that 2 monk backlines work.

Nothing against healing, I enjoy it more when monking, but boon prots can heal for very close to the same amount as a pure healer and still provide protection for additional damage.

zoozoc · Mar 03, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

well if the prot or healer guy could run boon/prot, id choose him over a pure healer or pure prot monk any day, especially if hes the only one. But im guessing you mean full prot or full heal, so i would have to go with heal since since the prot monk will not be able to heal sufficiently. A prot monk is key for every gvg build but he cannot sufficiently keep anyone from dying, while the heal monk can. Of course everyone here will say boon/prot, but i think he means pure heal or pure prot. Besides boon/prot could pretty much be classified as a divine healing monk since you have more of your attribute points in DF then in protection prayers.

zoozoc · Mar 03, 2006, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Oops, double post.

Celain · Mar 03, 2006, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerrick¹

Alright.. your guild is about to partake in a little GvG and eveyone is pretty much set when you realise that you're party is one man short and monkless to boot. (OMG!)

Of the two monks in your guild.. one plays a dedicated healer while the other specializes in protection prayers. Given that both are equally skilled, and you can only bring one along without hurting the rest of your build.. who gets in?

and more importantly... why?

Dump someone else and bring both monks. If that really does hurt your build, you need to re-think the build.

Kerrick¹ · Mar 03, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

sigh...

Alright.. but let's say you already have one of each and the Wa/Mo in your group, who also happens to be vital to your build for one reason or another, is demanding another monk to keep him going...

Then. in that situation specifically. what flavor monk do you bring?

AeroLion · Mar 03, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

There's no reason to go into a GVG battle with 1 monk unless 1) that monk is fan-frellin-tastic, 2)you've got supplementary healing/damage mitigation throughout the rest of your build, 3) your build is offensive enough that the battle won't last long enough for healing on your part will make much of a difference.

Edit: *sigh* Besides the fact that you're going to lose your battle and you're letting a sole W/Mo dictate your build, go with the protter because then you should be able to keep conditions and hexes off your party and let them do what they need to do.

The Renegade Healer · Mar 03, 2006, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerrick¹

sigh...

Alright.. but let's say you already have one of each and the Wa/Mo in your group, who also happens to be vital to your build for one reason or another, is demanding another monk to keep him going...

Then. in that situation specifically. what flavor monk do you bring?

Healer, if not you'd have 2 prot monks and only 1 healing monk. Only 1 prot monk is nessesary else they start layering the same enchantments on the same people, with a distinct lack of healing. This ignoring the boon prot bandwagon.

Which I'm about to hop on.

Yeah, have them go boon prot, it doesn't heal as much as an infusion monk, but the massive heals from the boon and Divine favor really works well with with added protection, for potentially less energy since all the skills (at least what I use) only require 5 energy, +2 for boon, so 7 energy, as opposed to a 10 energy heal other.

Celain · Mar 03, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Renegade Healer

Healer, if not you'd have 2 prot monks and only 1 healing monk. Only 1 prot monk is nessesary else they start layering the same enchantments on the same people, with a distinct lack of healing. This ignoring the boon prot bandwagon.

Which I'm about to hop on.

Yeah, have them go boon prot, it doesn't heal as much as an infusion monk, but the massive heals from the boon and Divine favor really works well with with added protection, for potentially less energy since all the skills (at least what I use) only require 5 energy, +2 for boon, so 7 energy, as opposed to a 10 energy heal other.

You're forgetting the -20 energy a minute from running boon (loss of 1 pip of energy regen.). A boon protector hemorrhages energy. This is why they all run either OoB or MoR. They need a very strong energy management skill to keep up with the loss of energy.

To the original poster, in this case I'd go with a boon prot, presuming your protection monk is familiar with running one. Boon prot has a higher degree of survivability than a healer, which is needed even with 2 monk backlines, due to monks being target numero uno. Something to keep in mind, with only a single monk, unless you're running strong additional healing with secondaries (e/mo, me/mo, whatever), he is going to spend 95% of his time just trying to stay alive. The other 5% he'll be dead.

Vermilion Okeanos · Mar 03, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Few reasons people choose prot + boon > heal

1) With healing + boon, a healing can easily OUTHEAL of the necessity. Wasting energy. With prot + boon, the extra energy can be turn into prevention of further damage, effectively increase the power of the monk.

One can wait for the victim to get hurt a few more time before sending the massive heal, however, that can often get tricky and very dangerous. Not prefered.

2) Prot + boon can rival heal without boon, therefore, the prot+boon is both prot+heal at the same time. While heal + boon or heal + prot, can not do what prot+boon do.

3) Heal monk is excellent in doing last second rescue (with boon+heal, an extreme healing easily to full), however, with prot+boon, you may never need to see the "emergency" and that is prefered.

If neither of them have Divine favor attribute, they are and should be equally matched. Aside some specialized occasion.

zoozoc · Mar 03, 2006, 06:45 AM // 06:45

hm...boon/prot days of dominance might be coming to an end.

Offering of Blood: increased sacrifice to 20%.
Mend Ailment: increased recharge time to 5 seconds.
Holy Veil: increased recharge time to 12 seconds.
Scourge Sacrifice: decreased cast time to 1 second.

But there is some good news.

Peace and Harmony: skill reworked. Now ends if ally casts a Spell on target foe or deals damage to a foe; reduced recharge time to 30 seconds.

koneko · Mar 03, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

I don't think it will necessarily come to an end. Mo/Me boon prot, maybe, using Mantra of Recall (as much as it sucks in comparison to OoB). For hex and condition removal, Remove Hex/Inspired Hex and Mend Condition (have another Monk also bring Mend Condition to throw it on you).

Other than those critical skills that zoozoc mentioned...nothing else has changed from what you expect to be in a boon build I think. RoF is fine. Guardian is fine. Signet of Devotion, Divine Boon and so on.

Le sigh.

Edit: I went and took the henchies on a quick trip in the desert...I suppose I can try to live with a 20% sacrifice until I work out a MoR build. It's not as bad as you think it would be.

Edit 2: For PvE, I mean. I can imagine it would suck for PvP.

Y.T. · Mar 03, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by koneko

I don't think it will necessarily come to an end. Mo/Me boon prot, maybe, using Mantra of Recall (as much as it sucks in comparison to OoB). For hex and condition removal, Remove Hex/Inspired Hex and Mend Condition (have another Monk also bring Mend Condition to throw it on you).

Other than those critical skills that zoozoc mentioned...nothing else has changed from what you expect to be in a boon build I think. RoF is fine. Guardian is fine. Signet of Devotion, Divine Boon and so on.

Edit 2: For PvE, I mean. I can imagine it would suck for PvP.

with contemplation of purity u dont need mend condition on u that much... but it hurts anyway - i used to heal with mend ailment more than actually remove conditions (with maxed DB and high prot it was nice). OoB is still ok tho, i liked holy veil's longer cast time for hexes (easy to interrupt) so of cos i can switch from holy veil to remove hex, but its not going to be the same...

Age · Mar 03, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

When it comes to this healing is more for PvE and Protect is more for PvP especially GvG.This is a 8vs8 team other than that you can heal in a 4vs4 team.It depends on what the guild or group wants.I rather enjoy healing as I am asked to it all the time so I am use to it although I would like to work on my protection skills.

MalVeauX · Mar 04, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

I would have to say Protection, every single time.

Why?

One simple principle: If you didn't take as much damage, there's less to heal.

Slow, drawn out damage doesn't need spot heals. Just a little healing buff here and there to keep things even between the two guilds as they duke it out.

However - healers cannot stop spikes, and spikes are what happen to healers and casters real quick like.

Prots can prevent that and while doing it, prevent nearly half the damage most of the party was going to take in the first place.

If they don't take the damage---you don't have to heal it!

Cheers!

Falcon213 · Mar 04, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Trends before the patch were to use either two boon prot, one boon prot and one heal, or two boon prot and one heal (occasionally a stance healer in the 3 monk setup).

I don't see anything changing with the patch.

Sekkira · Mar 04, 2006, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalVeauX

However - healers cannot stop spikes, and spikes are what happen to healers and casters real quick like.

Infuse Health.

Also, the boon prot's popularity is wavering, but not because of the skill balance. 20% sacrifice is still pathetically nothing. It's because the metagame is slowly changing from physical damage spike/pressure to more hex based and caster spike which completely ignores Reversal of Fortune. Ever tried to keep a team alive with a boon prot dealing with massive degen?

Denny Pace · Mar 04, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Well, taking one monk into a GvG is silly, but for the purposes of this discussion, I'd say Boon Prot, with one major caveat. Your other players have to bring monk utility skills, especially healing, hex removal and condition removal. If you don't, you won't make 10 minutes in any decent GvG match due to degen.

Boon Prot (well, monking in general) going forward is going to be a bit more difficult as a result of the last update, but it's still more than viable in GvG, depending on the rest of your team build.

Age · Mar 04, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

I was giving this some thought and when taking heavy damage protection isn't enough to to restore your life to 100%.This is if you are at say 20 to 40% health protection prayers just sn't enough to get you back up to 100% you really eed to be healed.I have seen this in GvG when you just have boon protecters.I would give blessed arua a shot as well or nothing.

JYX · Mar 04, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Infuse Health.

Also, the boon prot's popularity is wavering, but not because of the skill balance. 20% sacrifice is still pathetically nothing. It's because the metagame is slowly changing from physical damage spike/pressure to more hex based and caster spike which completely ignores Reversal of Fortune. Ever tried to keep a team alive with a boon prot dealing with massive degen?

Why? What happened to the heal sigs, the troll unguents and the endless stream of prodigy fueled heal parties? I think the reason for Boon Prot's success was that people realised that active shutdown was just a much better solution than going on the defensive in both effectiveness and versatility. That and the e/mo runner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yogi's Pain

Easy. The prot. There is a reason why 70% or so of the monks in GvG the past few months have been boon prot. And the reason that 2 monk backlines work.

Nothing against healing, I enjoy it more when monking, but boon prots can heal for very close to the same amount as a pure healer and still provide protection for additional damage.

Take EvIL in the championships, yes technically it was a 2 monk backline, but the amount of shutdown and damage mitigation packed in there was unfunny. Many other classes have evolved roles that displace the old monk ones or have taken over certain monk duties. For example we commonly use sigs/unguents to relieve pressure, we use ele flagrunners for heal party spam again to relieve pressure, flashturrets and sometimes enfeebling necros (flag runner or otherwise) for disabling, wards from again eles for prot, crippling for kiting and again damage mitigation, distortion for use against spikes.

With all this going on, what on earth would be the point of straight, efficient heal monks. Prot booners, even if sometimes healing inefficiently could do it very fast in emergencies and make it stick with the prots. Anything else gets cleaned up by other people. This is better, your entire line doesn't drop back the moment your monk does. WM lasted a not inconsequential amount of time with no monks on the deck. Another important point is that if you plan to split, what other choice do you have other than try and combine roles.